This is me sighing

[loony_moony]

You know, I'm seeing all of these meta posts on my flist the last two days regarding the so-called "misogyny in SPN" wank. They're all thoughtful and calm and intriguing. I'm only guessing they're the ones meant to stop the fugly from spreading any further.

So I'm drawing two conclusions, and you may do what you want with them:

1. Get over yourself, fandom. This discussion has been going on pretty much since season 1 of the show. It's not new, it's probably never going to stop being problematic, and I sincerely doubt Kripke intends to settle it. Some people like that about Dean Winchester, and some people loath it. From an objective point of view, I can say that this particular trait of him has even driven people off from watching the show. And other people don't give a crap, because he is a strong, lovable character, and he has issues. Duh, so does everyone. So if you think you're, I dunno, discovering the New World to anyone if you've just announced he likes to say sexually demeaning expletives towards women in the show, well slap on a dreadlocked wig and search for the rum, because you're just about as shocking and profound as Jack Sparrow.

2. Subjectively speaking, people know how I feel about this. I think Supernatural has had female issues since the beginning of the show, wherein it created two "perfect women" and martyred them in the same episode, in the same way. All through the series, female characters haven't stuck. We've seen very well done female characters, and also very badly done ones. None of them actually stayed for more than a season, even the ones with potential. I think that this is unlikely to get any better either, since we've been confirmed that the show is definitely striving to be a Gen one, and Kripke is truly starting to push now towards extremes, as the series struggles with its early adulthood phase. I also have to point out that Dean Winchester, as sexist and misogynist as he sometimes inexcusably is, also has been the mother figure for Sam, and frequently is very obviously desperate for women in his life that aren't there just for quick satisfaction.
That said, I think there are better ways out there to express this in him, and the staunch feminist in me is shrieking bloody murder whenever he calls a woman "skank", "slut" or "bitch". So I pretty much refuse to push this any further, for all of these reasons.

Hmph.

Comments

[onelittlesleep.livejournal.com]

2. Subjectively speaking, people know how I feel about this. I think Supernatural has had female issues since the beginning of the show, wherein it created two "perfect women" and martyred them in the same episode, in the same way. All through the series, female characters haven't stuck. We've seen very well done female characters, and also very badly done ones. None of them actually stayed for more than a season, even the ones with potential. I think that this is unlikely to get any better either, since we've been confirmed that the show is definitely striving to be a Gen one, and Kripke is truly starting to push now towards extremes, as the series struggles with its early adulthood phase. I also have to point out that Dean Winchester, as sexist and misogynist as he sometimes inexcusably is, also has been the mother figure for Sam, and frequently is very obviously desperate for women in his life that aren't there just for quick satisfaction.
That said, I think there are better ways out there to express this in him, and the staunch feminist in me is shrieking bloody murder whenever he calls a woman "skank", "slut" or "bitch". So I pretty much refuse to push this any further, for all of these reasons.

OOH, well said. And very good points, especially about Dean raising Sam, the martyring of the two perfect women characters, etc. Interesting!

SORRY to just jump in.

[loony-moony.livejournal.com]

Hahahaha, thanks! It's all good. :D

[shannon-doll.livejournal.com]

seriously couldn't have said it better myself. it's never gonna change, so let's just enjoy the ride and go with it.

I also have to point out that Dean Winchester, as sexist and misogynist as he sometimes inexcusably is, also has been the mother figure for Sam, and frequently is very obviously desperate for women in his life that aren't there just for quick satisfaction.
you win at life.

And I mean yeah Dean's a sexist pig sometimes, but that's his character. he's broken and damaged and sometimes you wanna slap him, but i love him. And so does Sam. LOL

[loony-moony.livejournal.com]

Yep. They both have their issues, and seeing their lives, I think they're utterly justified in having those issues worse than what most people would have. But then again, there are moments wherein I simply can't just gloss over things. That's the nature of interesting tv. *shrugs*

I know you don't know me but...

[demonalove.livejournal.com]

I never seen it explained so well. I came late to SPN, the end of the third season, and I was hooked after the first two episodes I watched. Then I think I made a mistake because I quickly ran out to buy all three seasons and watched them in a matter of days. I say it was a mistake because it amplified all the misogyny. Things I think might not have bothered me so much started to get to me before I was finished watching the third season, I just couldn't ignore it anymore. Basically all the things you pointed out pissed me off, but I just couldn't stop watching because it was, as you say, interesting. So, even though I don't like the characters all the time the story is interesting and keeps me watching. I was feeling a little alone in fandom because I don't hate the show or the characters but I'm not in love with them either, I'm neither a Sam or Dean girl and it's kind of neat to see that someone out there feels a little like me. Note the little, because I'm not saying you feel exactly like me and please no one give me flack. Because I kind of envy all of the fans who are more easy going about all the sexism on the show, I always feel so conflicted about it.

Re: I know you don't know me but...

[loony-moony.livejournal.com]

Oh no, there are a lot of fans out there who get bothered by the rampant sexism in Show! Except I think we get sort of blinded by the pretty sometimes. :) I think that in sexism/mysogynism standards, season 3 was by far the worst. It does get a little better in season 4, but I don't blame you for feeling a little out of the party because of it. I started as a Dean girl (who doesn't really), sort of morphed into a Sam girl, and in the ended asked myself why the fuck am I even choosing. They're both insane, hateful, lovable and beautiful in the same measure. So is John. I don't choose when I can have it all.